This opinion piece was originally about continuity issues in TV shows and movies, but it very unexpectedly grew to be so much more. 14,000 words more. So, strap yourselves in because it’s quite a ride.
***Added to May 24, 2024, to talk about a deleted scene from S12/E12 “The Reagan Way”. It’s in orange.
***Added to June 21, 2024, to talk about The Legacy of Joe Reagan, on the S13 DVD boxset. It’s in purple.
***Added to October – December, 2024, for the final run of the series starting with episode 11. This piece is now 20,100 words.
First, we’ll start with some pretty bad continuity issues concerning his age.
After watching Season 14, Episode 4, of Blue Bloods, I had to search for proof of life for continuity issues concerning ages. And that’s why we come to Joseph Conor Reagan, and his son, Joseph Hill.
In S10/E19 “Family Secrets”, the character of Joe Hill was introduced as the long-lost grandson. At the age of 24, he was the youngest detective in the firearms unit of the NYPD and had no clue who his father, or his father’s family, was.
For the sake of this argument, if we go by that age in late 2020, then he’s going to be 28 this year, which means he was born in 1996.
In S14/E4, “Past is Present”, we find out that the son of Sonny Malevsky, the detective partner and killer of Joe Reagan, is a cop in the NYPD but goes by the name Mike McFadden. Weirdly, maybe this is brought about by what Junior said in S13/E9 “Nothing Sacred”, about his father’s grave and the son of Sonny Malevsky.
At the end of S14/E4, Frank introduces Mike to Joe and they ask each other questions of each other. Joe asks him how old he was. Mike says 14, Joe says he was a few years younger.
Not if we go by your age in 2020. At 24 you would have been 12/13 in May 2009 when Joe Reagan died. And yes, I went back over old episodes to find out, and whenever you see the family standing in front of the gravestone you see that Joe Reagan, currently, was born January 4th 1977 (although it started as June 6th 1977 for at least 5 seasons that I’ve seen), and died May 15th 2009, making him 32 at the time of his death, and 18 when he hooked up with Paula, and 19 when she had Joe Junior. So no, Joe wasn’t a few years younger than 14, he was one to two years younger at most in 2009 when his father died. Although I’m being pedantic about the years and timelines because timelines are important.
Another continuity issue happens in the same conversation, seven sentences later, when they say this…
Joe: Must’ve been really hard growing up with that inheritance.
Mike: Likewise, with you, I bet.
Joe never grew up with it. He found out he was a Reagan three and a half years ago when he was 24 so how was it hard for him growing up with that inheritance? Do the writers not realise they screwed up in one conversation?
On a side note, Joe Reagan is 47 this year, if going by his gravestone.
Now, with ages, the show has had issues at other times when deciding if Joe was the eldest, but many claim he was the third child, after Erin and Danny, and Jamie looks to be 5-8 years younger than him, especially in S13/E9 “Nothing Sacred”, when Frank shows Junior old videos of his father.
However, back in S10/E19 “Family Secrets”, when the family discover Junior exists, Erin asks Frank, “This makes him what, 25, 26?” That would have made Joe Reagan 17-18. But, again, Junior is 24, making Senior 19 when he would have been born. Does Erin’s comment make Joe Senior older than her?
Just like with soap operas, ages, and birthdays, are rarely mentioned and no one really ages. But, characters are born and suddenly accelerated to an older age, and many die off if they’re already old. You can’t bypass those two parts of life. The beginning and the end. We all have them.
But now, we move on to the main topic this piece grew into, and I’m going to take umbrage with the treatment of Joe Hill and the mindfuckery of his character.
His mother’s treachery is the first mindfuck. Finding out who his father was is the second. Dealing with his father’s side of the family and their treatment is the third and fourth.
The definition of mindfuck.
We’ll deal with Paula’s mindfuckery first because she’s done and dusted and started this whole mess before he was born.
Paula kept his family from him for 24 years until he came into the show, and the family, as a fully formed 24-year-old adult in S10/E19 “Family Secrets”. Her excuse for keeping him away from them was, “She didn’t want the name Reagan to be a burden”, and she dropped that bomb on Frank.
She had no interest in being in a “relationship” with Joe at the time even though she had no problem fucking him, she dropped out of the academy because she was pregnant, and kept it from him. “We were just kids, I didn’t want a serious commitment, didn’t tell him I was pregnant because he would insist on getting married or want to be involved in raising him.”
She felt that for all Joe Senior would talk about walking in his father and grandfather’s footsteps he’d also be walking in their shadows, something Frank reiterates to Junior in S11/E2 “In the Name of the Father”, and she wanted her son to make his own choices. It was just a short fling, according to her. But Joe Senior seemed to do a hell of a lot of talking during this short fling. When they weren’t fucking, of course. Or maybe during.
And all of this permits you to not tell a man he’s going to be a father? Or to keep your child from his father and his side of the family?
Fucking seriously?
He’s twenty-fucking-four and doing a DNA test to find his father who he’s been asking about for years.
In S10/E19 she has two conversations with Frank. In the second conversation she says, “But this week has forced my hand in ways I did not see coming.” She told Joe everything, and he reacted with a thousand questions and laughed when looking back at his interaction with Frank. There was something he couldn’t put his finger on, now he knew.
She wants her adult son to not be in the position that led to his father’s death. She wants him to have a safer job in Brooklyn or Queens so he’ll be out of harm’s way. No, Paula, you don’t get to decide that. Neither does Frank. And throwing a tantrum because you don’t get your way shows how goddamn selfish you are.
Because when she doesn’t get her way their conversation ends on this note.
Paula: So, when you’re done thinking about it, you can let me know. Until then, I would rather you didn’t contact us.
Frank: I’m sorry you feel that way.
Paula: I’m sorry he ever found out about you.
You selfish fucking bitch!
She fucked up. Royally! Fucked her son every which way. Joe went twenty-four years not knowing who his father was, and going without him, because of her selfish need to keep him to herself. He was born in 1996, you didn’t need to get married, regardless of what Joe Senior wanted.
And let me tell ya, Paula, you claimed you tried to tell Joe about his father, but only spent a small amount of time with Senior and only knew so much, yet you knew exactly who he was, what his name was, and who his family was when you were fucking him, and thought enough of him to take his St Jude medal and then hand it, along with his name, down to your son. But didn’t think enough of Senior, or your son, to tell either of them so your son could have his father growing up? To claim you only knew so much about his father was absolute fucking bullshit.
Your son went without a father. Joe died not knowing he was a father and had a son. And both could have been in each other’s lives but weren’t because of you.
Onto S11/E2 “In the Name of the Father”, the bitch barges into Frank’s office, and when Frank says family are the exception, she says “I’m not your family. We’re not your family. Yes, my son may be related to you by blood—”
Yes, Paula, Joe is his family. The grandson you kept from him.
She wants him to stay Joe Hill, but now she’s pissed that he’ll become Joe Reagan, the new poster boy for the NYPD and it’ll get out that he’s a Reagan, and asks Frank if he’s going to claim him as one of theirs. He’s all she has, and he’s a Hill, of the Warwick Rhode Island Hills, and that’s important to us.
US!
Not his father’s side of the family? You know, Paula, The Reagans.
And then she has the gall to say, “If you tell him to keep it a secret, he will.” When Frank disagrees, the gall continues and she says, “Please don’t deny me, again.”
Frank says, “I can’t deny you something that was never in my power to withhold in the first place.”
God, fucking seriously! He didn’t deny you the first time. Your son is a grown-ass man who made the decision to find out who his father and his family are.
And an odd thing this episode brought about. When Frank tells them someone got to someone in the Suffolk County offices about a certain birth certificate and it was going to be on the websites that night, they know who Joe is. If his father’s name is on his birth certificate, why was he doing DNA testing? How did he not know who his father was? Do Americans not need their birth certificate to obtain a driver’s licence, rental agreement, or bank account?
Back to Paula, who loves to play the victim.
An episode later, S11/E3 “Atonement”, she’s whining again, this time at the Reagan dinner table. She says, “I feel like this is some sort of karma, like I just brought this on from worrying, selfishly worrying.”
Selfish? Fuck yes! But karma’s not why this is happening, Paula. It happened because you fucked up and didn’t tell your ex he had a son and didn’t tell your son he had a father. This is about your son learning who his father was and who his family is, and you’re STILL making it about you. Just because you didn’t want anything with Joe Senior doesn’t mean you get to deny your son the other side of his family for the rest of his life.
You’re just a cunt, Paula. Period!
I don’t know how Frank didn’t tear strips off her during their first conversation for keeping his grandson from him for twenty-four years. How goddamn dare she keep Joe from his family and keep the family from knowing him, and then demand that Frank change his job while dropping that bomb on him. Frank should have said as much and demanded to know how she could be so goddamn selfish, hurtful and vengeful.
Now we move on to the Grande Dame of mindfuckery by the family and we’ll dissect this by season.
Let’s get the kicker out of the way right now, which is the fourth complete and utter mindfuck.
If you want to do absolute emotional and psychological damage to a young man finding out his father is dead and he’ll never know him, just tell him this, you’re just like your father. But then, when you’re pissed at him, you spit this out instead, you’re nothing like your father.
Way to fuck up the emotional growth of a young man in desperate search of his father.
Joe was a fully formed 24-year-old adult in S10/E19 “Family Secrets” before the Reagans got a hold of him. He came into the show as a wee little Woobie and only had two scenes. First with Frank when he’s asked into the office so Frank can see who and what he is. The second is at the end when Sean goes and gets him for family dinner, even though Jamie told Eddie in the scene right after the family found out about him that he and his mother were coming to family dinner even though they hadn’t even been invited yet and they didn’t know where he lived!
Little Woobie’s all “Hi everybody” and the family goes into shock. They see nephew Joe, looking like brother Joe, and aren’t sure how to react. They’re just as curious as him, and you see it in all of their faces.
Hell, I don’t know if I’d be able to walk into a room full of people I never grew up with and be all, Hi everybody. Oi, just no.
And why the hell is he wearing old man clothing? He’s 24, not 64. 24-year-olds are not wearing check shirts with t-shirts underneath.
We see Joe again in the first episode of the next season, S11/E1 “Triumph over Trauma”, when Danny and Baez go missing. Joe joins in the search and calls himself a family friend when introduced to Anthony, and Jamie has no issue with that. Joe sticks to Jamie, who’s pretty good to him, and they have a conversation about Joe Senior where Joe Junior says, “I don’t know the first thing about him.”
Why not? Why has no one told him about his father yet? Why has he not googled his father? And that’s not a dirty euphemism. At the end, Jamie asks if he’s coming to Sunday dinner, Joe says he has plans, and Jamie seems okay with that.
Or is he?
A few months into the family, Joe’s still feeling his way and living his normal life. And Jamie is yet to be an ass to him.
So far, so good.
In the next episode, S11/E2 “In the Name of the Father”, Joe’s third outing, he gets to show off his BDE (big dick energy) by chasing after a perp who kidnaps a little girl. He becomes the “NYPD’s Top Gun” for his selfless act, but soon realises it’s not as great as he thought it was going to be. His boss is calling his three days off “Kardashian Duty”, and he just wants to get back to work because reporters are sniffing around asking about his background and whether he has a history of NYPD in his family. He wants to keep it to himself, even though he and Frank have this conversation after his heroic actions at the beginning of the show.
Joe: In those blockbuster franchises they call that your origin story. What it is in your past that determines your destiny.
Frank: Yeah, not something that you can take back.
Joe: Why would I want to?
Why? Oh, so many reasons why! Let me count the ways, Joseph.
He and Paula come to family dinner at the end of the episode, and it’s discovered by the press that Joe Hill is half Reagan and it will be on the websites by morning. This scene and episode move right into S11/E3 “Atonement”. After it’s revealed again at the beginning, Henry says, “As the most ancient of this clan, you’re welcome here anytime. But we’ll also respect what distance you want to keep, and I say that with love.”
Which is great, telling him they’ll respect his choice to take his time getting his head around it. But do they actually respect that?
They seem to. For now.
In this episode, they’re especially caring after he fights with other detectives after it comes out that he’s a Reagan. He says, “Some of the guys were pissed that I was hiding a connection to 1PP this whole time, made it out like I was pulling a fast one on them, and then they started going in on you guys and, I lost it.” And says this about the family, “being the like Kennedy of cops, doesn’t make it any easier.”
Which they are and it’s another burden to bear.
Hell, even Jamie tells him, “There’s gonna be more crap to take, but it’ll get easier.” Ah, really? Considering you’re the one giving him the most crap by Season 14.
Why would you get into a fight over a family you’ve only known for a few months? Especially a family that can look after themselves. Although I’m surprised the detectives tried it with the PC’s new grandson. That was ballsy!
By the end of the episode, Joe’s calling himself grandson. When Frank lets him in to deliver the food for Sunday dinner and asks, “Friend or foe?”, Joe says, “Grandson.”
But, with everything that’s happened to him, it’s no wonder he decides to take time off and files for a leave to get the hell out of Dodge and away from the family so he can get his head on straight, missing the chance to meet Nikki and Jack. He’s so mindfucked by everything he’s suffering emotionally and physically.
So far, in four episodes, they’ve taken him in as a half Reagan. They got to know him with card games, and chatted with him as an equal. He is the “new” Joe. They trod lightly, not pushing or rushing into it, but he’s still an adult, not a child. Not a child nephew, an adult nephew. But maybe they also kind of treated him as if he was their brother.
We move onto another two-parter in S11/E15 “The End”, and E16 “Justifies the Means” at the end of the season. Joe’s been undercover with the ATF for six months but is in Manhattan when he shouldn’t be with a head of thick luscious curls, something I’m most definitely a sucker for. Danny comes close to him when he and Baez take down a few crims, and reams his father out for it. Joe calls Jamie to check in and says, “Man, it is good to hear your voice.” Joe still regards Jamie highly, and Jamie still cares and has no issues at this stage. Danny then tells the rest of the family at dinner that Joe’s undercover and is pissed at Jamie because Jamie’s been his NYPD handler for the entire time.
But, as it goes, things go wrong, and Joe is found out. He may have been murdered at the end of E15, and they’re doing a DNA test on the corpse at the beginning of E16. It’s not him, he’s alive, and smart, and doing what he can. His uncles are caring and worried about Junior because they don’t want their brother’s son going the same way as his father, as Danny mentions in E16. They follow him wherever he goes as he leads them across the state to another firearms buy. Something’s going down and he’s shot in the knee, but just fine.
By the way, Joe, don’t close your eyes when shooting a gun. That’s so problematic.
At the end of E16, Joe’s at family dinner, for the third time in a year, and they bought the food from Razzano’s in Glen Cove because they didn’t know his favourite food. “That time when you didn’t show up for dinner, when you bailed on us, stood us up.” He apologises for running out the way he did six months previous, regardless of Henry saying no apologies necessary, but then that comes after Henry told him in S11/E3 “Atonement”, “But we’ll also respect what distance you want to keep, and I say that with love.”
But did they really respect it? And is, “That time when you didn’t show up for dinner, when you bailed on us, stood us up”, the start of how they really feel?
Because at the end of that episode, this three-sentence conversation happens.
Frank: But Joe is something special here. He is truly his father’s son.
Joe: And that’s a good thing?
Frank: There is no better thing.
It’s potentially this comment that more than likely made all of this worse, if not set it off to begin with because the look on Jamie’s face… He’s all, whatchu talkin’ ’bout Willis?
I piss myself laughing when I see this.
And that comment goes against everything Jamie says when he throws his shit fits in later seasons.
There’s also another issue I have with this episode.
Joe Senior’s St Jude medal that Joe Junior has. When he gets it back at the end of S11/E16 after losing it, he tells them, “You know this was my dad’s, right?”
They tell him they know, they all got one at their first holy communion. But how did they know it was his medal to save in the first place? It’s never been mentioned, and it could’ve belonged to any of the other two men in the car.
Plus, how did Junior get it if Paula’s short fling with Senior didn’t last long? How and why did Junior not ask Paula how she had it? And if he did, why do we not know? And why would Senior give it to her if it was just a short fling? And how did the family not know Senior had given it away? He had at least another 13 years to be alive, why did no one ask, and why did Senior never say? And why did they not ask how Junior got it?
So many goddamn questions not being answered! *Pounds fist on desk
And by the way, writers, St Jude is the patron saint of hope and impossible causes, NOT hopeless cases as Joe says. A three-second Google search would have told you that.
Joe’s first outing for S12 is E6 “Be Smart or Be Dead”. He’s been beaten up by a crook he once put away. Little Woobie gets a few ribs and his left arm broken, and he looks so small and lost on the bed, and in the whole episode, you just want to hug him. Joe’s lost his big dick energy and has become the broken and orphaned waif, good at playing Oliver. “Please sir, may I have some more?” With the attitude he gives, it’s clear he’s embarrassed by the fact it happened, and this line tells that, “And be the dumbass cop who got jumped by a street thug and then had his ass handed to him on a platter.” That’s more than likely why he refuses his grandfather’s suggestions. Does he think he’s getting preferential treatment because he’s the new grandson? Frank is just telling him to do it by the book, but Woobie wants to do it his way.
And Joe, don’t give me ideas about your ass. I may use it in a novel… Oh wait, I already did…
It’s also a year and a half after he joined the family, and he still doesn’t have a photo of his father, even though, again, he could have googled him and downloaded some, or asked Frank or Henry for some, and I’m assuming they are yet to have any of him.
When Frank goes to see him at his apartment the first time, Joe points out the photos on his shelf and says, “I don’t have any photos of my dad, so…”
Frank: But you are like him in so many ways.
Joe: Yeah, I wouldn’t know.
Why? Why is this taking so goddamn fucking long? Why have you not told him everything about his father by this point in time?
Later in the episode, this scene makes me cringe when I hear it and I can’t watch it. When Frank calls him into the office to reprimand him for not doing his duty, Joe automatically goes to sit and Frank tells him, “I didn’t ask you to sit.” Yet in S11/E2 “In the Name of the Father”, he tells him he doesn’t have to do any of that. It’s cruel emotional punishment, no matter which way you cut it.
At the end of the episode, Frank gives him Joe Senior’s graduation photo (because there seems to be no other photo of Joe Senior in existence!) and tells Junior his father would be proud of him. Joe then asks if he can come to dinner. But that begs the question, if he’s family, why does he need to ask, or wait to be invited? Was there not an open invitation? Did Eddie lie at the table when she told Joe and Paula that dinner every week was mandatory? The way the family went on about dinner in that episode makes a lie out of Joe needing an invitation or needing to ask.
Something else in this episode that annoys me. It was evident from his first episode that Joe wasn’t much shorter than Frank, and he’s the same height as Erin, Danny, and Jamie, but every time they film him, especially with his grandfather, he looks so tiny, fragile, and vulnerable, especially in this episode and he was clearly filmed that way on purpose.
And it’s amazing how a broken arm can heal and be fine in six weeks because Joe’s back in S12/E12 “The Reagan Way”. The poor orphaned waif is long gone and he’s sporting MDE (massive dick energy), which is obviously down to the new haircut, and oh, wait, Jamie gets pissed at him for the very first time when things don’t go Jamie’s way.
Joe is working with the FBI and they need Jamie’s help, but Jamie wants them to do things his way. Joe’s FBI boss gets pissed, then Joe gets pissed and wants an answer.
Joe: Jamie what the hell are you doing? I just started on this task force you’re blowing my first case out of the water.
Jamie: We don’t threaten people’s lives to get ’em to co-operate.
Joe: We?
Jamie: We don’t purposely withhold a receipt from a drug crew knowing they’ll put a price on his head.
Joe: You can’t be… We…we… Ja, I’m not a part of you.
You’d think, considering Joe Senior entered the academy as Joe Conor, that Jamie may have learned a thing or two and understood what Joe was talking about.
Later, this exchange happens.
Joe: And now I know why Danny calls you a boy scout.
Jamie: Hey, before you said you’re not one of us. Right, well I think you’re absolutely right. You’re not. You’re nothing like your father.
That tells me Jamie’s intentionally saying it to hurt him and put him in his place. But to what end? For what reason? The look on Joe’s face when he says it… WHY torment him and rip his heart out? Especially with the same old conflicted, contradictory argument that Jamie seems to use when he’s having a tantrum and wants to specifically hurt Joe and put him in his place. Is Jamie now having a hard time seeing Joe as his nephew and not his brother? That’s Jamie’s problem, not Joe’s, but he’s made it his problem while denying responsibility for his part.
But, back to the episode. Joe didn’t say he wasn’t one of them, that he wasn’t a Reagan, he just said, “I’m not a part of you.” It could also depend on how Jamie meant we. The Cop We, the Royal We, or the Reagan We. Joe could have meant Jamie personally; he could have meant in the cop sense. He’s not one with Jamie and Jamie’s rules and Jamie’s world, he’s Joe Hill, he has his own world and his own rules, and is currently under the FBI’s world. He’s not part of the symbiotic parasite that is Jamie Reagan.
Jamie has no right to be pissed, and clearly, took it the wrong way. Yet Jamie doesn’t understand what’s going on, and bitches to the family at dinner.
Jamie: Not everybody feels that way. Some Reagans don’t even wanna be Reagans.
Frank: You gotta be talking ‘bout Joe.
Jamie: Yeah, we’re working the same case, and ah, he’s keeping the secret that we’re related.
Henry: No.
Jamie: Maybe he wants to keep it a secret cause he’s not sure he wants to be a part of this particular club.
Frank: Well, don’t count him out.
He wasn’t keeping it a secret; he just wasn’t telling anyone and that’s his choice. There actually is a difference. Imagine introducing “Uncle Jamie”, a Reagan, part of the “Kennedy of cops”, to your FBI boss. Especially if it goes south, as it did. No thanks! That would have set off a whole load of questions Joe didn’t need from the FBI. But as it was, Jamie had to fuck shit right up and create an issue even though Joe thought enough of him to tell his boss Jamie was okay and they could work with him. Did Jamie not think he was good enough to work with Joe and the FBI? Joe did. And what does Jamie do? Instead of seeing it as a win, that Joe thought enough of him to bring him in on the case, he sees Joe’s comment as a refusal of family. Get a goddamn life, Jamie, you little parasitic worm!
I’m going to repeat myself; Joe was already an adult when they met him. Frank should have told Jamie to grow up, and he’d already reminded them that Joe was an adult at dinner when they found out he was undercover in S11/E15 “The End”. Joe’s a cop finding his way up the NYPD food chain and trying to earn his stripes the best way he knows how, as a Hill, which he’s been all his life. He wants to earn his stripes without the help of the Reagan name that he’s never had all his life, and without the torture it came with in S11/E3 “Atonement”.
Many people milk their family name for all it’s worth, others want to run from it and change their name so they’re not condemned by it. Joe’s not running from the name, and no longer running from the family like in S11 when he needed to get his head around it, he just doesn’t need to embrace the name as his own because he was never named it. You can be proud of who you’re related to and have great relationships with those people, but it doesn’t mean you need to change yourself, or your name, especially if you think it’s going to be a hindrance. And there is nothing wrong with that.
This scene comes next in S12/E12. Jamie still has a problem with Joe and they have this exchange.
Jamie: You know what your problem is?
Joe: Right now, it’s you, man.
Jamie: You haven’t learned yet that only thinking about collars and not thinking things through is gonna get you or someone else killed.
Joe: Great then, I’ll be just like my dad, huh.
While they continue working together to find the missing woman and child, at the end of the show they’re back at the house for a card game so Jamie can battle it out with Joe in front of the adult male members of the family. It’s obvious Jamie’s told the family about their arguments, even though we don’t see that, because they all get words of wisdom in and you can tell it’s for Joe’s benefit.
***Added May 24th to talk about the deleted scene from S12/E12 “The Reagan Way”.
There are a couple of reasons scenes are deleted. Usually, it’s to cut the fat to keep the time limit for the episode, or because it doesn’t fit into the overall storytelling of the episode.
In this case, it could have been either, or both. I can see them cutting it to keep future storylines open for antagonism between Jamie and Joe, which they again showed in S14/E2/E3.
This scene would’ve come between Jamie and Joe rescuing the woman and child, and Frank’s home where Jamie calls the rest of the males in to teach Joe his lesson.
The deleted scene is this: It’s nighttime, and the end of Jamie and Joe’s time working together when the crims who kidnapped the woman and child are arrested and being put into the cop cars. Jeff is talking to Joe and Jamie and tells Joe it was a risky move.
Jamie takes the blame for said risky move, possibly to save Joe from getting booted from the team. In which case, okay Jamie, I’ll give this round to you, but it doesn’t stop you from being the parasitic worm who hurt him to put him in his place by telling him, “You’re nothing like your father” at the beginning of the show.
Jamie walks away to talk to another officer and Joe seems to be somewhat impressed with the parasite, but also puzzled, as you can tell by the look on his face. It’s a cross between “What the fuck did he just do?” and “Did he just do that for me?”. You can see his mind ticking over as to why Jamie would say it.
Jeff and Joe then have this conversation.
Jeff: Okay this your first case with us, so I’m gonna give you a pass. That is not how we do things. (My thought: There’s that word ‘we’ again.)
Joe: gives a huffy laugh.
Jeff: What?
Joe looks at Jamie: Actually, that is how we do things. (My thought: He’s now using the ‘we’ he said earlier in a different context.)
Jeff: Who’s we?
Joe: I should have told you this earlier, but um, he’s my uncle. (My thought: He looks somewhat proud.)
Jeff: You’re kidding me? You’re a Reagan?
Joe: Yeah, I’m a Reagan.
Jeff mumbles and walks away.
Joe looks from him to Jamie and nods, Jamie nods back. There’s some vague recognition of respect on both parts.
Yeah, he is a Reagan. By blood. And…?
That’s how Jeff knew about Joe being a Reagan in S13/E13 “Past History” without it being made clear how he knew. Clearly, Joe telling him he’s a Reagan didn’t put Jeff off from working with him, because he did it again in S13/E13, and regardless of Joe’s attitude in that episode, again in S14/E2/E3.
I’m not sure what to make of this scene. It feels off somehow, feels like something he wouldn’t say yet, like telling Frank in S11/E15 “The End”, “I love you, Grandpa.” It’s only a year and a half since he came along, and he hasn’t spent much time with the family in general. Hell, he spent most of S11 gone. It feels like they rushed him into it, and that could be a reason why it was cut. It was too soon for him to say it regardless of him telling Jamie, “I’m not a part of you”, which he’s technically not.
Another reason could be, if this is the only time he has said it, because he doesn’t technically say it in S12/E20, he just says, “You got three Reagans, someone’s gotta hold the phone. What? You wanna film and defuse at the same time?” they could have cut it because they wanted the room to explore more complexities within the relationship of nephew and uncle, which they have in later episodes.
Joe seemed to be exploring something by saying it, seeing what it felt like to say it. Maybe he’s proud of it, and you can sort of see that on his face, but that’s in this episode, and it seems to have changed by later seasons. He’s always feeling his way with Jamie, you see that when they work together. He’s feeling his way through the relationship he should be having with him. They can work together and still piss each other off. But it’s high time Jamie got his shit off his chest and revealed the real reason so he can move forward to having a healthy relationship with his nephew. Because, again, that’s what Joe is, he’s your nephew, NOT your brother.
Something I also remembered thanks to this scene, and I really wish Frank would scorch earth Jamie with this information, Frank told Joe in S11/E2 “In the Name of the Father”, that he doesn’t have to make the same choice his father made in owning up to the name. I’d say that’s why he’s still a Hill, why he still says he’s a Hill. Because he is. He’s a Reagan by blood only, but a Hill by birth, by upbringing, and by every way legally. He didn’t grow up a Reagan, he didn’t get the name because Paula didn’t want to “burden him” with it.
And jumping ahead of myself, in S14/E9, as talked about towards the end of this piece, he says it again, he’s a Hill. He seems to have a lack of emotional attachment by now. He has no feelings about the car, nor for his grandmother whom he didn’t know. Maybe by S14, he’s realised that having an emotional attachment to something, or someone who’s dead, isn’t worth the energy. Because, guess what, it’s just not.
***
As a brief intermission, let’s reflect on S12/E14 “Allegiance”…
Back to what I’m writing about, in S12/E20 “Silver Linings”, only eight episodes after his first beef with Jamie, things have calmed down long enough for them to be on speaking terms and working together again. And while Joe doesn’t look happy about Jamie wanting to help the woman look for her sex trafficked daughter, he’s man enough to offer his help to Jamie because Jamie’s going to need a detective.
During the investigation, they have this conversation about Junior’s parents.
Joe: I got a question for ya. My mom says she didn’t tell my dad because he would have insisted on getting married. Is that true?
Jamie: Without a doubt.
Joe: I sometimes wonder what it would have been like if he knew, you know, if I knew him.
Jamie: Sometimes I wonder if he knew, would he have handled himself differently on the job?
Joe: What do you mean? Like would he have been more careful if he knew he had a son? Would he still be alive?
Jamie: Guess we’ll never know.
I’m a woman, but fuck, I can really hate women and the shit decisions they make sometimes.
Near the end of the episode, an important moment happens when he calls himself a Reagan in a roundabout way. He, Danny, and Jamie are looking for the young girl who’s been sex trafficked, and when they find her with a bomb strapped on, he refuses to leave. Danny says to the bomb expert, “You’ve got two Reagans here.” Joe says, “You got three Reagans, someone’s gotta hold the phone. What? You wanna film and defuse at the same time?”
While not technically saying, “I’m a Reagan”, and not yet changing his name, he hasn’t said it since.
After that, Joe’s at dinner, and thanks Frank for having him. AGAIN, he’s family, he shouldn’t have to be invited or thank them for having him. Jesus! And he and Jamie are all smiley at each other.
Is Jamie smiling because Joe finally, in a roundabout way, called himself a Reagan? Finally admitted to being in the family in front of other people? Something he complained about back in S12/E12 “The Reagan Way”, when he said this about Joe, “Some Reagans don’t even wanna be Reagans”, and “Yeah, we’re working the same case, and ah, he’s keeping the secret that we’re related.”
Either way, it looks like we’re back to playing happy families.
For now.
We next see Joe bringing back his big dick energy in, S13/E1 “Keeping the Faith”. He’s working with Danny and then Jamie to catch a murderer, and Jamie is shot. Joe goes to the hospital with Danny, and Erin, Eddie, and Henry turn up. He sees the dynamic of how they cope with a potential death and later has a conversation with Danny, who also calls him nephew, about his father and how it must be eerie with Jamie in the hospital. They have a sweet conversation, something you rarely see, about Joe Senior.
When they finally find the perp, Joe beats him up and Danny asks, “What are ya doin’?”
Joe: What are you doin’?
Danny: We do it by the book, okay?
Joe: Why?
Danny: What do ya mean why? Because that’s what Jamie would do, that’s what your old man would do, so that’s what we do.
A rare, but very important lesson taught by Uncle Danny. Take heed, young Joe.
Danny, for all of his hot-headedness, is pretty cool with Joe. It hasn’t been stated if they’ve grabbed a beer, or hung out, but he’s neither here nor there with his feelings. His concern in S11/E2 “In the Name of The Father”, makes him want to go and beat up the detectives who beat up Joe, and is later added to in S11/E15 “The End” and E16 “Justifies the Means”. He’s being the protective uncle, and in his case, he’s far more mature when it comes to Joe than Jamie. Maybe because Junior is so much like Senior but is still his own man finding his way, and Danny’s cool with that and clearly understands it better than Jamie who doesn’t seem to understand at all. Maybe it’s because he has kids and Jamie doesn’t.
Onto S13/E6 “On Dangerous Ground”, when Joe works with Erin and Anthony, he becomes hot-headed as things don’t go his way and pisses Erin off. Remind you of anyone? At the end of the episode, when Erin wants to speak to Joe, even though she knows where he lives in S12/E14 “Allegiance” because she turns up unannounced on his doorstep, she has to ask Jamie where Joe would be that night. How would Jamie know where Joe played basketball when Jamie’s the one that gets pissed off most? Unless he knew that from S11/E15 “The End”, when he was Joe’s handler and pretending to be his brother because he’s rarely, if ever, spent time with him one-on-one outside of work.
But even Erin has to get a variant of “the kicker” in. After telling him she wanted to thank him because he was right about her ignoring the behaviour of another attorney, she tells him, “Just don’t forget that your father was my brother, and he would be ashamed of the way you spoke to me.”
It’s heartbreaking. When they go bowling after working together on a case at the end of S12/E14 “Allegiance”, she builds him up with, “You remind me of him, so much. I miss him, every day.” Just to rip him down with, “He would be ashamed of the way you spoke to me.” In other words, he would be ashamed of you.
And the look on his face…
MINDFUCKERY!!!
Moving onto S13/E9 “Nothing Sacred”, when he visits his father’s grave for Senior’s birthday and finds that it’s been destroyed, he becomes emotional at the site of the broken gravestone. He clears it off and tries lifting it while crying. When Frank says he wants to delegate a team to track down who did it, he says, “You’re gonna delegate this? This is my dad”, and before walking away says, “Sorry Dad.” Naw, the poor little Woobie is coming in strong and it breaks your heart. Two years in he’s emotionally invested in a dead man he will never know, and only knows of and hears about on a very rare occasion. After two years he should know everything and have photos and videos. The mindfuckery is digging deep.
And Joe, stop with the head bobbing. It just looks weird from behind.
In that same episode, after he’s invited to Sunday dinner, he finds out Frank didn’t tell them about the gravestone and says, “I’m sorry, I don’t get you guys. Like half the time, you swear each other to secrecy just long enough to blab to everyone else, and the other half, you say everything is on the table except no one ever hears a whisper about it.”
Later, when Frank goes to see Paula to try and figure Joe out, this happens.
Paula: My son likes you Reagans, really, he does, he admires you. But the one person in your family that he loves, is his dad.
Frank: Who he never knew. And to see his dad’s grave like that and then be forbidden from finding out who did it.
Paula: Honestly Frank, what did you expect him to do?
However, two seasons earlier in S11/E15 “The End”, Joe told Frank, “I love you, Grandpa.” So that goes against what Paula says. And it irked me when I heard it in S11/E15 because I thought, you’ve known him how long? Six or eight months, a year at the very most? Sorry, how do you come to love someone, as in a grandfather you never knew, and have barely spent time with, in such a short time when you haven’t been raised with them?
Maybe it’s different for me, I only knew my maternal grandfather and he was an arsehole who was unlovable. But then, if I’d had Magnum for a grandfather, things would’ve been very different.
At the end of S13/E9, Senior’s gravestone has been replaced and Frank is talking to Joe for the unveiling. He’s realised he didn’t navigate the learning curve well when it comes to knowing his grandson. Joe agrees, and Frank follows up with, “I’d say it won’t happen again, but God knows it probably will.”
So, again, why have you not spent time together talking about Senior, or learning about Junior?
Instead, four episodes later, you complain about his attitude and punish him for it in S13/E13 “Past History”. An FBI sting goes wrong and Joe’s boss, the one he worked with in S12/E12 “The Reagan Way”, is complaining to Frank about him. He now knows Joe is Frank’s grandson, something Joe never mentioned in S12/E12. *Which I’ve now discovered he was told by Joe in the deleted scene from S12/E12.
Joe: I don’t know what that guy’s problem is.
Frank: I do. It’s you. It’s pretty clear you don’t listen and you can’t take direction.
Then this comes up.
Frank: You ever notice, how when you got a beef with someone, it’s always that other person who’s always dead wrong?
Joe: I hadn’t. No.
Joe’s bringing the curls and the attitude, and not the big dick variety. At this point, three years in, he’s trying to prove something and maybe it’s how far to push his grandfather. Maybe, it’s to see how far he can push himself. Or maybe he’s just becoming Danny. Later, when talking about Joe to his team, Frank says, “Yeah, with a chip on his shoulder the size of a Buick.” Frank knows something’s wrong, and says, “He’s not dumb and he’s not shallow, but he is trouble.”
And we’re about to find out how much.
Their next interaction is a fight in Frank’s office after Joe’s been transferred to 1PP and the Chief of D’s office for a week as punishment. And that’s Chief of Detectives, not Dicks, as I first thought, even though dick is slang for detective. I write adult romances full of sex; my brain goes there. But back to the show. Joe’s pissed, Frank’s pissed, we’re all pissed.
Joe: You transferred me to the Chief of D’s office. Why?
Frank: When you commit an error in the field you’re generally taken off the field.
Joe: I didn’t do anything wrong. I followed the letter of the law.
Frank: There is a chain of command, last time I looked you weren’t at the top of it.
Joe: So, this is how I’m just, what like, a timeout, like I’m not playing well with others. (My thought: No, bitch, you’re not!)
Frank: My hope is, that you will use it as a time to reflect.
Joe: On my short comings?
Frank: On your potential, and what the obstacles may be to achieving it.
Joe: You describe my old man as a hard charger, first one in kind of guy, right? So maybe what this is actually about is you trying to make sure that history doesn’t repeat itself. Maybe reflect on that!
Frank: Hold on! I have reflected on just that, many times, often in the middle of the night and I can tell you one thing for certain, whatever this thing of ours is, it ain’t that. Just sos you know.
Later in the episode, this conversation happens between them. It explains everything, but, as usual, doesn’t change anything.
After the beginning of the conversation, comes this…
Joe: I never know where I stand with you. Half the time I feel like I’m competing with a ghost.
Frank: Whose ghost?
Joe: Come on.
Frank: Did you walk by a big bronze statue of him on your way in here?
Joe: Not literally.
Frank: Not anything….
A few moments later comes…
Joe: The dynamic that I have with you, that I have with your family didn’t come out of a vacuum. I’m being measured against something here, and if you tell me that it’s not against my father, then I’ll believe you.
Frank: It’s not.
Joe: Then tell me what it is.
Frank: I can’t.
Joe: You mean you won’t.
Frank: No, I mean I can’t right now. I don’t know which one of us has the answer to that.
Joe: Well, if you figure it out you know where to find me.
Joe’s line, “I’m being measured against something here”, is extremely accurate. He is being measured and has been the entire time. He’s been measured against his dead father from the moment they met him, and probably from the moment they found out he existed, because they keep telling him he’s either just like him or nothing like him. And by Season 14 Jamie’s treating him like a nobody and still using Joe’s death as the excuse.
The truth is, they were hoping for the reincarnation of Joe Reagan, but all they got was Joe Hill.
At the end of the episode, Frank confesses it’s probably true.
Frank: Of course, you feel compared to your father, we knew him, you never even met him, we lost him, he was never really yours to lose, and then we found you, and I’m sure you felt like you were kind of being x-rayed sometime like we figured some sort of shadow or shape in you would bring him back to us for a moment. So, I’m sorry for that.
Joe: Not necessary, you put it that way.
The apology is extremely necessary. They wanted something out of him, wanted Joe Senior back and expected Junior to be him. Danny not so much, he’s laid back with his nephew, treating him somewhere between an adult equal and a teenager. Erin wanted her brother to be alive in him, but that isn’t going to happen. And as for Jamie… *Insert fifty million eye rolls
And he finally sees videos of his father. Jesus fucking Christ!
In Joe’s case, learning to love people he didn’t grow up knowing has been a transformation. Especially when it comes to his dead father. You don’t learn to love people you don’t know overnight. At 24, it’s going to be hard to find your way into a dynamic that already exists and has done so for decades and generations. You need to find your place in it as you learn about the people you’re related to. You need to know where you stand with the other adults you never knew, as an adult, because that’s what he is. He’s not a child, he was a fully formed adult, who’s now struggling to continue finding his way while being a Hill, but also now a Reagan, and a member of the “Kennedy of cops”.
***Added June 21st to talk about the special feature from S13, The Legacy of Joe Reagan, which centres around his son, Joe Hill.
But is it the legacy of Joe Reagan? Paula Hill raised Joe, he is, in essence, her legacy. Joe Reagan didn’t even know his son existed, and vice versa, so is Junior his legacy? Can you be a legacy if you weren’t raised and known about by a parent?
During the DVD extra, one of the executive producers, Siobhan Byrne O’Connor talks about Joe’s episodes, E1 “Keeping the Faith”, E6 “On Dangerous Ground”, E9 “Nothing Sacred”, and E13 “Past History”.
In E1, after Jamie is shot, Joe explores the emotions concerning his father and the legacy of shooting deaths and what if Jamie went the same way. He sees the family’s reaction and it hits home with the potential of losing another family member. In E6, his anger gets the better of him and he pisses Erin off, and in E9, Senior’s gravestone is broken. That legacy lends even further to Junior’s frustration about a dead man he will never meet. It continues into E13 when Joe and Frank get into a conflict about Joe Senior. Siobhan said she finally realised Joe hadn’t learned much about the family and that’s why he finally gets to see a video of his father.
Well, no shit, Sherlock! Why haven’t you told him more about his father? I’ve mentioned that multiple times already in this piece. Why had he not been told about his father? Seen photos and videos. A simple sentence or two every other episode to let us know what he’d received or learned, seen or heard, or done with a member of the family would have told us he was learning about his father and his family and spending time with them. But there was bupkis. Zip, zilch, nada. Absolutely bloody nothing!
Several of the Executive Producers have their say about the character, and many of them bring up the issues I’ve mentioned in this piece. Well, you lot made the show, why didn’t you bloody do something about it?
No wonder the Woobie in Season 13 is angrier than the one we met in S10/E19 “Family Secrets”. The one we saw move into S11 for the first three episodes ended up being a very emotional Woobie. The world was finding out he was half Reagan and he was copping it from every side and on every level. That’s why he got out of Dodge. He needed time and space to decompress it all and came back in E15/16 with some balls and BDE, but you could see he still had a conflict about his father being dead and his family being new. Through S12, he’s finding his way with Erin and Jamie, getting into spats with both of them. But Woobie from S13 is angry and ready for a fight. With almost everyone.
Will Hochman gets prime talking time in this special feature, and you hear from him and Tom as they talk about their scenes in E9 and E13 as well as the ones they’re in together.
Will has more of a grasp on the character of Joe Hill than the producers and writers do. He’s articulate and insightful when it comes to what the character needs and wants, especially about the anger Joe is feeling through the season. But S13 is three years into the revelation of family, has he been angry this whole time or just this season? Or is it finally coming to a head that he knows jack shit about his blood relatives? The fact he will never know his father is one thing, and you can understand the anger about that. He had no male role model in his life, no strong paternal guidance or father figure that we know of. Unless he had Paula’s father, his maternal grandfather, to guide him. But the fact that he’s hardly spent time with the Reagan family, other than Jamie at work, says he doesn’t want to. This is why telling Frank in S11/E15 “The End”, “I love you, Grandpa” makes no sense to me.
Will lends to this when talking about Joe from his episodes. “What does it mean that this is who his dad was and what does it mean that this is who his family is now. And does he want them, does he not want them”.
Exactly.
After the way they’ve treated him, why would he? Especially Jamie, who is a huge part of this piece. And the abuse only got worse in S14. Unless he’s a sucker for punishment, or desperate for love from Daddy’s family, as I’ve also mentioned, wanting to be a part of an abusive family is not okay. Unless he feels taking it is the only way to stay close to his father. Again, whom he never met.
This is why I think come S14/E9 “Two of a Kind”, (I speak about this below) he didn’t care when he said “Your brother’s Chevelle.” And even though Jamie keeps correcting him, no amount of correction will change Joe having to put a cap on his emotions when it comes to a dead man he will never meet. The same with his grandmother. She died four years before Senior.
So, does Joe want them? It appears he does after what he says in S14/E2 “Dropping Bombs” (again, more on that below). I just hope he doesn’t regret it because when it comes to Jamie, he should.
If you’re a fan of the show, and/or Joe Hill, this special feature is worth watching. Will’s voice can lull you to sleep it’s so damn smooth, and I watched this special feature a good twenty times just to hear it. And Will, if you’re not doing narration of audio books and TV shows, you need to.
***
We don’t see Joe again until S14/E2 “Dropping Bombs” when he’s back working with the FBI in a sting to get a drug dealer and finds an undercover Jamie who then gets pissed at Joe because he could have had his cover blown.
It wasn’t blown, because Joe did his job. But Jamie’s pissed anyway when he throws his little tanty and says to Lou, “I don’t need your protection and not from someone with less time on the job than me, boss.”
He then says, “No, I don’t need to have to start worrying about him too.”
Joe: You don’t have to worry about me.
Jamie: Good, I won’t.
What the fuck is your problem, you parasite? Joe’s working with the FBI, and you’re pissed off for what reason exactly?
Now we’ve seen more of Jamie’s beef with Joe, but still don’t know exactly what it is. Usually not doing things by the book that Jamie lives, breathes, and shits by, but is somewhat stated when they have these exchanges.
Joe: No, you put him in danger, I’m trying to keep him out of it.
Jamie: Well, I don’t want your help, we got this.
Joe: Like you did when my dad died? A very long silence between these two sentences. I’m sorry I didn’t mean that, it just came out.
It pissed off Jamie even further and you could see something brewing underneath.
Later, this is said at Joe Senior’s grave.
Jamie: I came here coz I want to set the record straight.
Joe: All right about what I said before.
Jamie: Can you just shut up and listen for once? Your father asked to be on the warrant squad over my dad’s objections, over everyone’s objections. But he was a grown man and an active cop, no one could tell him what to do, he made his own decisions, so stop blaming the family for what happened.
Joe: I didn’t mean for it to come out that way.
Jamie: You have no idea what it was like for having to live through losing him, you didn’t even know him. So, get off your high horse and have some respect about it. I’m not your friend or your co-worker. But I’ve been doing this job and dealing with tragedy long before you even thought of being a cop. You don’t think each of us, at one point or another, played the blame game. Wondered if there was anything, something, that we coulda done to keep him from getting killed. And that is exactly why I will not work with you. I will not be put in the position of having to worry if I did enough to keep you from danger too. I won’t.
Jamie has his high horse so far up his butt he can’t walk straight, so it’s incredibly rich to tell Joe he needs to get off his. Jamie has no problem preaching the rules, or circumventing them, and criticising those who don’t follow them. He may be the youngest, and if he stopped looking at Danny before making his decisions, or speaking, he might realise Joe Junior’s life is not in his hands. Neither was Senior’s as he pretty much mentioned at Senior’s grave.
The death of Joe Senior might still weigh heavily nearly fifteen years later, but Junior is not your brother and any of you could die at any time. Just as Jamie could have in S13/E1 “Keeping the Faith”, when he was shot under the vest, but the youngest Reagan sibling has forgotten all about that a season later.
At the end of the S14/E2, at family dinner, they have Joe crawling up their backsides and blowing smoke. I wouldn’t even bother at this stage if I were him.
Joe: I kind of realised the truth this week that I’d like to share with all of you.
Danny: That you’re really my illegitimate son.
Sean: Actually, it would make a lot of sense. (My thought: Yes, Sean, it actually bloody would!)
Joe: No, but Uncle Jamie did set me straight about a few things this week… It occurred to me that literally everyone at the table at one point or another has done that. (My thought: Since when did he go from plain old Jamie to Uncle Jamie…? Ugh! Just…No!)
Henry: Straightened you out.
Joe: Tried to. I don’t listen, I’m hot-headed, I’m ungrateful…
Danny: Keep going.
Frank: Please do.
Erin: Yeah, we’ll tell you when to stop.
Joe: You guys are brutal.
Sean: Welcome to my world.
Joe: I spent so much time unpacking who my dad was and how he died, that I never really told all of you how much this means that you’ve accepted me as a part of this crazy family… I’m really grateful for all of this, for all of you. (My thought: But are you? Really?)
Frank: Back atchya.
Jamie agrees, but his face says something different.
What the actual goddamn fuck?
This needs to be reprised from earlier and added to extensively. “Please sir, Kennedy of cops, may I have some more? More affirmation, more pats on the head, more attaboys, more abuse from this family, especially that asshole Jamie, because I’m desperate and needy for acceptance from my dead father’s family since he’s not here to give it to me.”
Because that’s all he’s getting.
At 28, what does he have to prove after four years? He has nothing to prove to any of you, or is it that he has to prove he’s a Reagan by your standards and not the ones he was raised with? Which you don’t seem interested in.
Is it that he doesn’t do what you want him to? Is it that he’s become a little careless and uses his father as an excuse the same way you Reagans do? I can see that. He was an exemplary detective with a good record Frank mentioned in his first few episodes. Yet in four years he’s turned into Danny 2.0, being hot-headed, impulsive, and spitting one-liners and comebacks to his superiors. And after four years he’s still trying to find his way up the ladder of the NYPD and the family and doesn’t need you lot on his back about how he needs to be as a cop. He’s clearly taken on the bad habits of the Reagans around him instead of staying on his steady track as Joe Hill. He needs to get back to that, not be another version of them which is no doubt going to ruin the good record he had.
The problem between Joe and Jamie continues as S14/E2 moves into S14/E3 “Fear No Evil”. They’re still working the case from different ends, and getting along at the beginning, have a couple of neutral interactions until Joe shoots the dude he’s after. Then they work together, with the FBI, to get the sex trafficked girls out of the safe house and Jamie gets dragged out by his “boss”. Joe follows and shoots that dude. Two in one show, go Joe! Then we have this moment where Joe says to Jamie, “The family thinks I’m the crazy one”, and Jamie says, “I guess we’re related after all.”
You sure about that?
Because this conversation happens later.
Joe: Hey listen, I’m sorry that I didn’t always follow your lead.
Jamie: Yeah, whatever.
Joe: No, I’m serious.
Jamie: You can apologise all you want, but from what I’ve seen, you’re never gonna change.
WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. FUCK!
Change what, change who, change how, change why, change what the fuck now?????
Joe, why the fuck are you apologising for not following his lead? And what lead was that? Did I miss something? Every time I hear that I’m confused as to what the fuck he’s talking about because it’s the parasitic worm Jamie who needs to change his fucking attitude. Joe is not you, Jamie. He does things his way. He had a boss on this job and it wasn’t you, and what lead of yours did he have to follow that you’re attacking him over? You were working the case from different sides because there were two crims involved that you were both after. And why should Joe change to suit you? He does need to go back to being who he was before your family got their talons into him, but not for you, and sure as hell not because you tell him to.
But then Jamie always needs to be right and the smartest one in the room, so he’s all pissed up the wall over his nephew.
WHAT. THE. ACTUAL. FUCK!
The look on poor Joe’s face after that comment is utterly heart-breaking, and you feel for the poor little Woobie because they emotionally pummelled him in these two episodes as they’ve done previously.
The things they say to him cut deep, and the expressions he gets on his face make me want to punch everyone’s lights out. But goddamn, Will Hochman does a damn good job of looking hurt.
And fuck you, Jamie!
The last scene of the episode is dinner, and when Sean asks about the extra table setting, Jamie says, “Yeah, is a Joe comin’?”
Why? Why the fuck would Joe turn up to dinner after the way you treated him?
Jamie, you have issues with Joe. You also have no issue hurting Joe, and think you put him in his place when you say what you do to him. And you still think he’s coming to dinner?
Fuck no! I’m with Joe. I wouldn’t want to come to dinner after being mindfucked, either. Especially after the arse crawling he did in the previous episode.
Joe’s tried hard to be in the family, to be something, and someone, while trying to figure out his feelings concerning his father, while trying to still be the cop he wants to be. But he’s no longer being himself because the family are too busy telling him he is or isn’t like his father, and his father wouldn’t do this, that, and the other. Sadly, the ghost of his father is stopping his emotional and professional growth. So are the family.
He’s become the verbal punching bag, mainly Jamie’s, so it’s no wonder the kid doesn’t know who the hell he is. Arthur, Martha, Hill or Reagan, and he’s no longer any old Tom, Dick, or Harry. He’s Joseph ‘Big Dick Energy’ Hill. Stop making him desperate for approval because he’s clearly not getting it from Jamie. And stop making him the second fucking coming of Joe fucking Reagan.
Joe Junior is not his father. He never has been. Joe is your nephew. That’s it. Joe is his own man who grew up independent of his father, who was doing fine until you Reagans got a hold of him and completely mindfucked him to the point he’s saying, after four years, that he’s still unpacking who his father was and how he died. And that finding out who his family is has been a trip.
Although, surprisingly, in S14/E6 “Shadowland”, he’s not yet considered a member of the family, or a Reagan, by Sean, even though he was all gung-ho at the beginning when finding out he had another cousin. He’s drawn his family for the final presentation of his graphic arts class, and it shows everyone on the Reagan side except Joe Senior and Joe Junior, regardless of Junior having been around for four years. His mother Linda, a nurse, didn’t make it into the drawing either, even though Eddie, as an in-law, did. So, Sean only sees the Reagan side, and not even the full side at that, as superheroes.
After watching these episodes with Jamie being an arsehole, I’m having a lot of thoughts about their dynamic and what Jamie’s real issue is. Jamie runs hot and cold with Joe, and I think he’s threatened by him.
The “reincarnation” of his brother is his adult son who’s also a detective. Jamie is no longer the youngest adult cop in the family. Is Joe a threat to Jamie? To a degree, he could be as his father’s son. He is Joe Junior. But Joe Senior, Jamie’s best friend, is dead, and Jamie is still the baby of the siblings, going from being the baby lawyer to the baby cop, which he no longer is. Danny gave him shit for seasons, and now Jamie’s giving it to Joe. Does Jamie think that he can turn around and treat Joe the way Danny treated him to make him a better cop? Or, is he getting back at Junior for Senior dying in some weird distorted and fucked up way?
He may have started out all caring towards his nephew in S11/E15 “The End” when he tells Danny his reasons for being Joe’s handler had to do with Senior’s death. He said, “I felt like it was my chance to make amends”, and “I can do something to protect his son.” Yet the tables turned over the next year. And while he keeps saying it’s about not wanting Junior to go the way Senior did, there’s something else, something more than what was said in S12/E12 and then S14/E2/E3. After watching those last two episodes specifically, maybe Jamie foretold all of his anger and hatred for Joe in S10/E19 “Family Secrets” when having lunch with Eddie.
Jamie: Just don’t want to see my dad get hurt.
Eddie: Why do you think your dad might get hurt?
Jamie: All I know is this guy’s a complete stranger and how do you make up for all that lost time?
Yes, how do you? The best way Joe Hill knows how, and that’s one day, one dinner, one year at a time. By the way, how many dinners has he actually had with the family in four years?
And here’s another thought. Joe Hill came into the family, and by his third episode, S11/E2 “In the Name of the Father”, he’s showing off his BDE (big dick energy) and became the “NYPD’s Top Gun” for his selfless act. Does this mean Jamie suddenly got an attack of SDS (small dick syndrome), or was he already feeling that because of having Danny and Joe Senior as older brothers? Danny went to war and Senior was an adrenaline junkie, so I’d say so. Jamie’s feeling emotionally, and probably physically, inferior, pushing his gruff superiority at work to compensate. Whatever’s going on in Jamie’s head, I’d say it has less to do with his brother or his nephew, and more to do with where his position in the family now lies.
Nikki, Jack, and Sean aren’t in the family business, so out of the four grandkids, Joe is it. And yes, he is just like his father and that’s pissing Jamie off exponentially, which is probably why he keeps throwing tantrums and treating Joe the way he does.
Onto the last Jamie & Joe episode before the hiatus.
As I post this on May 13th, everything that I have written and re-written until now after falling down this goddamn rabbit hole has come after what I saw and heard in S14/E4 “Past Is Present” when it aired on March 15th. Two months of rewatching Joe’s episodes, letting my brain explore the dynamics and personalities, and then getting those thoughts down to create the opinion piece this is.
But when I saw that S14/E9 “Two of a Kind” was coming, and what one of the storylines was going to be about, I was all, fuck yeah, it’s gonna be the knock-down drag-out penultimate showdown between Jamie ‘Parasitic Worm’ Reagan, and Joe ‘Big Dick Energy’ Hill.
My lack of money was on Joe.
But oh, what a goddamn pathetic waste of fighting that was. What a piss weak storyline that resolved fuck all where these two are concerned.
Jesus, talk about boring!
If Jamie can’t get his shit together long enough to grow the fuck up and treat Joe as an equal and not as “his brother’s son who needs protecting and saving so he doesn’t go the same way as his old man” then he needs to fuck right off.
Their first scene is up and Joe and Jamie are at a cop bar, which is surprising, as they’ve never hung out before and Jamie’s pissed in more ways than one.
An officer Jamie gets intel from is celebrating his birthday and comes over to see if the “Reagans” want to do shots. Jamie says no, Joe says, “O’Keefe, I’ll do a shot with you. I’m a Hill, for the record. Cheers.”
After a comment about Jamie being Sergeant Buzzkill, to which Joe laughs, this happens.
Jamie: You said I’m a Hill, what’s a Hill?
Joe: What, what do ya mean? What do you mean by that? (Leans on Jamie’s shoulder which is overly familial for the extent of their relationship so far.)
Jamie: It’s a simple question, come on, get off. (Pushes Joe’s arm off his shoulder.)
Joe: Hey, watch it.
Jamie: You watch it.
Joe: All right, and what’s a Reagan? What is that, huh, what is that, you?
Jamie: Yeah, I’m a Reagan. (Shoves Joe, so instigates physical violence first.)
Joe: You wanna take this outside?
Jamie: Hell yeah I do.
Jamie STILL very clearly has an issue with Joe being a Hill and not a Reagan and saying so. Get real Jamie, he’s only biologically half and as you’ve stated at Senior’s grave, Joe never knew him, so how the hell would he know how to be a Reagan? From you and Danny? What’s he learned? That you’re a stickler for rules with a high horse so far up your ass you can’t walk straight, and Danny breaks them whenever he can. Yeah, great way of learning how to be a Reagan. *Insert massive eye roll
As for the fight, I sniggered the first time I watched it, giggled the second. Looks like Joe got in the most shots, starting with a shove in the back. There was lots of grunting, groaning, and wrestling, and all they needed was to take off their shirts and get in a mud pool, or one of those coloured ball pits. Either way, Frank ain’t thrilled, and Syd is trying not to laugh. *More sniggering.
For their second scene, they walk into Frank’s office a little worse for wear and very sheepish indeed. They go to salute, but Franks’s the boss and all, “not today.” He isn’t interested in their excuses, gives them a choice, and they have to suck it up and deal with it.
Personally, I would have torn strips of them and tried to get to the root of Jamie’s issue with Joe because someone fucking needs to.
Up next we have a scene between Frank, Henry, and Eddie.
Eddie: How is that a good idea? I mean, they already don’t really like each other.
Frank: Eddie, I don’t think that’s it.
Eddie: I know that’s it.
Frank: Why, because Jamie complains about him, rags on him?
Eddie: Jamie is not exactly a man of mystery. He says what he means…he means what he says.
Frank: Yes, but Jamie has been charged with respecting Joe, and Joe with respecting Jamie. But their bond wasn’t formed in regular family ways, it was forged by a death in the family. Joe’s and Jamie’s. They’re related by blood but also by an awful burden, and that to those two, really chafes.
It’s true, Joe Senior is the biggest issue, but Jamie has another issue with Joe and I’d bet on it. Not a lot, I’m not rich, but I’d still bet on it.
When it comes to Joe, Jamie doesn’t say what he means or means what he says. Jamie’s never stated what his real issue with Joe is, he’s very physically and emotionally enclosed with him. And it isn’t because they don’t like each other. They tolerate each other, they work well together when they bother to, but the root of Jamie’s issue has never been explored and probably won’t be as the show is finishing. Unless it’s the fact he doesn’t want Joe going the same way as his old man, or he thinks he has to protect Junior so he doesn’t go the same way as his old man, I have no freakin’ clue. But get over it and grow the fuck up because this has become boring.
Then we have them striding down the street working, and I’d definitely run towards Joe in that uniform. But let’s just cut to the chase, people. Jamie’s pissed at Joe, Joe doesn’t know much about Jamie, Jamie schools him on it, I’m not even repeating that juvenile conversation except for this part.
Joe: You cracked up a car that I’m pretty sure meant a lot to you, right? Your brother’s Chevelle.
Jamie: Cracked it up. That’s what you heard?
Joe: Yeah, had to fix up the frame and everything.
Jamie: It was line of duty, some mook cut the brake lines, and you mean your father’s Chevelle. Yeah, it broke my heart.
Joe: All right I didn’t know the part about the brakes.
Jamie: Well, it’s in that big fat file of stuff you don’t know.
He doesn’t know because you fucking bastards don’t bother telling him anything about yourselves or his father, he always has to fucking ask!!!
Once again, Jamie had to mention Joe Senior. At this point, it doesn’t matter if it was Senior’s car or not, although he probably would have left it to Junior if he’d known him. Jamie’s had it for fifteen years, Junior will never have it and it clearly doesn’t mean anything to him. It’s just a car. He’s not emotionally attached to it like Jamie. Is Jamie still feeling guilty for having it? Who fucking knows!
Then we have their ride along and Joe now schools Jamie and says this.
Joe: Yeah there’s no way anyone riding with you ever suggested it before.
Jamie: What’s that mean?
Joe: You’re a Reagan, you’re cop royalty, who’s gonna insult you by telling you how to avoid a collar.
He ain’t wrong! Who the hell goes against a Reagan except those closest to them or another Reagan?
And for continuity’s sake, when the perp throws an air fryer to his left, and to the left of the stairs, don’t have it miraculously appear by Jamie’s foot, at least five feet from where it was thrown. Jesus Christ!
Then we come to this scene.
They’re both in Frank’s office waiting for him, Joe asks about his grandma, which now begs the question, why have they not told him about his grandmother? Or is she just another dead person they don’t feel the need to tell him about?
Although, in all honesty, why do you need to learn about dead people you never knew? You don’t grow up with them and they were never in your life. You’d have no feelings for them either way, but Senior is different as he’s Junior’s immediate parent.
Frank comes in and they take a seat and only Joe apologises. Joe knows his manners. Jamie does not.
Jamie says, “We can get along.” Joe agrees, “Yeah, you won’t have any trouble from us.”
Yes, they’ve proven they can get along, when they try hard enough, even when they’re pissed at each other, but we still come back to the problem that hasn’t been resolved. Jamie’s actual problem with Joe.
It can’t just be that he says he’s a Hill. He is a Hill. He was born and raised a Hill. He doesn’t need to change his name just because he’s found out who his father is, so Jamie doesn’t get to have a problem with Joe being a Hill.
Harking back to the beginning of this piece, Joe walked into this family as a full-grown adult of 24, he’d grown up with his mother, and their life, and that was it. Regardless of asking about his father, and not finding out that information until he was 24, he is still entitled to be Joe Hill and to be proud of being a Hill. And from what I can tell, Paula’s parents may have also been cops and Frank knew them back in the day. So, Joe is more than entitled to be using Hill as a name. That’s who he is, so if this has only ever been about him being a Reagan but not changing his name, I hope Joe doesn’t change it to please the parasite. Jamie, grow the fuck up and deal with it, you’re supposed to be an adult who’s educated in the law, so you know full well Joe doesn’t need to change his name.
Going against my thought during the writing of this piece, about Joe changing his name to Reagan, or at least hyphenating it to Hill-Reagan, I now don’t want him to change it. I want him to stay who he is. Joe ‘Big Dick Energy’ Hill.
Does Jamie have a problem with Nikki being half Boyle? Or Jack and Sean being half O’Shea? If he doesn’t, then why hold it against Joe? Is it because Joe’s in law enforcement and his nephews and niece aren’t?
In S11/E3 “Atonement”, once the press has found out that he’s a Reagan, Joe tells Paula, “Mom, I’m still a Hill.” Did Jamie have a problem with that then?
No person needs to change their name when finding out that they have biological family they never knew. It takes time to assimilate into that family and get to know people, if they ever do, but they never need to change their name. Just as you don’t need to change it when you get married. Which was mentioned in S11/E3 “Atonement” when Eddie talked about taking the name. She hasn’t, or has she forgotten that she’s still Officer Janko?
There’s no apology from Jamie by the end of this episode. Why has Joe apologised to this family more than Jamie’s apologised to him?
Onto family dinner and Joe’s been… Invited??? Or did he ask???
But we learn that he’s only been bowling with Erin once. Fucking seriously?
You all say you don’t know your nephew yet you don’t bother spending time with him to get to know him. They could have been bowling every couple of weeks. He could have been drinking with Danny every couple of weeks. But no. They love to NOT hang out with their nephew and get to know him and then wonder why Jamie gets pissy at him for saying he’s a Hill.
And another continuity issue. Erin, you told Joe in S12/E14 “Allegiance” that you were the bowling champ who kicked his father’s butt every week. Yet in this episode, you said, “Well, your dad taught me well.” Which is it? Both? Neither? None of the above?
Oi, Jesus. This episode was probably great with the other storylines, but I just watched it for the Jamie/Joe showdown. A showdown that was so piss weak and left everything unresolved. What bullshit!
Wrapping it up until October.
After watching S14/E6, I went in search of the show on social media, for the first time in its fourteen-year history, and scrolled back through the years to the posts from when Joe joined the show. Many comments were way off base and nowhere near the issue, many were the same as what I’ve written about here, so I’m not the only one thinking these things. Maybe that’s what the writers wanted, maybe not, but that’s what came out of it.
As for all of those loose ends flying in the wind. I hate them. Each time Joe Junior is talked about there’s one more loose end, one more question to ask, and one more continuity issue to watch. As an author, we get ripped apart if we leave mistakes like that in our books, but on TV shows, it’s okay because they don’t care about timelines at all. Or mindfucking 24-year-olds with massive biological news and expecting him to deal with it.
I’ll be watching the last of the season with interest and in detail and will be editing this post and adding updates with each episode he’s in. Season 14 is the last and is divided into two, and I can’t wait to see what Junior does, and how the family treats him.
I’d also love for him to meet his father, but there are only two ways I can think of to make that happen. So, I’ll just have to wait and see along with everyone else.
And I’ll say this now so it’s etched in stone before the show finishes.
I hope Joe Senior’s not actually dead and he’s just been working undercover and overseas for 15 years. And the very last scene of the show as it finishes is Joe Junior going into the kitchen to get something and you hear a smash. When Sean opens the door, we see Junior and Senior standing there looking at each other and Senior says to the family through the doorway, “Sorry I’m late, but I’m home now.”
Or…
Maybe Junior finds a homeless man and because he’s been staring into the eyes of his father in his graduation photo for four years, he recognises him and gets him help before calling in the big guns of his grandfather and at the end everyone else finds out he’s alive.
Or…
And here’s a potential scenario for the two-part show finale for the writers of Blue Bloods, and if you want to use it, email me and we’ll do a deal.
The kids are going to meet up with Joe, finally, but Sean has to stop for a bathroom break and they end up at a convenience store. He texts Joe where they are and Joe texts back that he’ll pick them up as it’s on his way.
Two armed thugs come into the store and start shooting the place up. Sean texts Joe again. ‘Two armed thugs gunshots’. Joe texts back, ‘Hide’, and pulls to a stop at the store. He calls for backup and goes sneaking into the store. He sees one perp at the counter. “Freeze, police”. The dude shoots and Joe shoots back.
Then there are gunshots from the other end of the store and it becomes a game of cat and mouse, but Joe and the shooter shoot each other, and Joe goes down as Mike McFadden and his partner come into the store. Mike runs around the front display crates and sits atop Joe to stem the bleeding while calling for a bus and backup, and to the clerk for tape and towels or wadding.
Joe looks up at him and realises who he is. He mumbles, “Isn’t it ironic, don’tcha think?”
Mike, holding his hands over Joe’s wounds, says, “You’re quoting Alanis Morrisette at me?”
Joe replies, “A little too ironic, yeah I really do think.” He pauses and stares at the ceiling. “Do you think this is how my dad felt? Do you think this is how he felt when he knew he was dying?”
Mike, taping up his three gunshot wounds with the clerk, says, “And how’s that?”
Joe suggests, “You should become a detective and then we can partner up to do what our fathers never got to do.”
“Yeah, what’s that?” Mike asks.
“Be great cops.” After a pause, Joe adds, “My cousins?”
“Who?” Mike asks.
“Us,” Sean says as he, Jack and Nikki come around the corner of an aisle. “Oh, my God, Joe.”
They crowd around and Mike calls back to base. “How long for that bus?”
“Another fifteen minutes.”
“We can’t wait that long. We’re getting him to the hospital. It’s only five minutes away.” Mike and his partner haul Joe to his feet and help him out to the cruiser.
The kids are following behind, making calls to Frank, Danny, and Erin.
“My car,” Joe mumbles as he’s being loaded into the backseat.
“We’ll take it,” Sean says. “We’ll follow you.”
The officers take off with Joe, and the kids take off in Joe’s car.
Cut to the hospital.
Frank, Danny, Erin, and Jamie are waiting when Joe’s wheeled in on a gurney with Mike on top of him pumping his chest.
“He coded four minutes ago, I’ve been doing CPR the whole time.” He’s so busy doing his job that he doesn’t see the Reagans.
The gurney is wheeled into an ER, and he dismounts after the doctors take over and makes his way back to the hall wiping his hands on a towel a nurse gave him.
“Officer McFadden.”
Mike turns around and stands to attention. “Commissioner.”
“What happened?”
“We responded to a call at a convenience store, I found your grandson, ah, Detective Hill on the floor with three gunshot wounds and applied medical aid. When the bus was going to take too long we got him here.”
Frank nods. “All right. Thank you for your service, get cleaned up and get back to your station. I want a full report on my desk by tonight.”
“Sir.” Mike nods and walks away with his partner.
“Who was that?” Danny asks. “We should give him a medal.”
“Officer Mike McFadden,” Frank replies.
Danny is shocked. “Sonny’s kid? Sonny’s kid saved Joe’s kid?”
All three Reagan children are astounded.
“Why the hell was Joe at the store in the first place?” Jamie asks. “It’s nowhere near where he lives.”
“He was protecting us,” Sean says and they all turn around to see the three kids. “We were going to meet him for lunch and had to stop off, I texted him where we were, and he said he’d come and pick us up. I texted again when the two gunmen came in. He told us to hide.”
Jack says, “He came in with guns blazing. It was cool.”
The family huddles around for hours and cut to Joe’s surgery where he goes into cardiac arrest.
Fade to black and the episode ends. Cut to the second episode with the same scene.
We see Junior standing at Senior’s grave. He says, “Dad.”
Behind him, a very sexy voice says, “Son”.
Junior turns and sees Senior beside him, gasps in shock, and moves into his arms.
Senior hugs him fiercely and kisses his temple. “Hi, Joe. Hello, my son.”
“Dad.” Wee little Woobie’s crying. Senior’s crying. We’re all crying.
“We don’t have long so you need to listen to me.” Senior holds him at arm’s length. “This is not your time, Joe. You have many, many decades of life to live. You get to marry a great girl, have great kids, and be a great dad and detective. This is not your time, Joe. Do you understand me?”
“Daddy!”
“I want you to go back, but remember this, always. Always wear my St Jude medal. It will protect you because I will protect you through it. Never take it off, always keep it on, and you will always be safe.” He kisses his forehead. “And I will see you when it is your time and we’ll talk then, okay.”
Junior nods. “I love you, daddy.”
“I love you too, Joe. I wish I’d known you when I was alive. But it didn’t work out that way. And tell Pop I’ll be here waiting for him.”
Both Joes disappear.
Woobie wakes up in his room and grabs for his medal but doesn’t find it there. “Daddy, where’s my daddy?”
Frank stands by the bed. “It’s okay, Joe. He’s here. Here’s your father’s medal. You were clinging to it when you came to, but they had to take it off for the surgery.” He hands it to his grandson with a bullet dent smashed into it.
Joe grasps it and stares at it. “My dad. I saw my dad. He said it wasn’t my time and he’d protect me through his medal. Always.”
“And he clearly did.” Frank nods at the medal. “It was burnt to your chest. It saved you.”
Henry manages to walk up to the other side of the bed and Joe turns to him. “And he said he’d be waiting for you when you get there.”
Shocked, the family are just glad that he’s alive, unlike their first Joe.
Cut to a few days later when we see Mike McFadden leaving Joe’s room.
Cut to a year later in the firearms unit.
A lieutenant shakes the hand of his new recruit although we only see the recruit’s back. “Welcome to the firearms unit, detective. We’re glad to have you.”
“Glad to be here, sir.”
“Great, say hello to your new partner, Detective Joe Hill.”
Mike turns and smiles at Joe. “Hill.”
Joe smiles back. “McFadden. Ready to do what our dads didn’t get to?”
“Absolutely.”
“Great,” the lieutenant says. “Because your first job just came in. Get to it.”
The boys grab their coats and walk out the door arguing over who’s going to drive.
For the record, Joe wins because he’s been there the longest.
THAT would be a twist no one saw coming. Unless it actually does happen and I’ve already seen it… *Arches brow and looks around at the ceiling. Why is the Twilight Zone music playing…?
Weird!
And Will, if you and George are friends in real life, that would be freakin’ hilarious.
I hope that Joe Hill is once more allowed to be the man he was when he came into the family and not Danny 2.0, or the reincarnation of his dead father. Who is hot. And apparently, just an actor they called up for the photo. If anyone has found said actor whose picture is that of Joseph Conor Reagan, let me know. I need to know if he’s still hot and what his real name is. It would be hilarious if it was Joe.
Until October…
It’s now October and we’re back with the final episodes of Blue Bloods!
I had to sign up to Paramount to watch this show because my usual free site is blocked by my new subscription to Norton. Damn!
We’ve got hot Joe action in this episode, S14/E11 “Life Sentence” with a Jamie-centric storyline. I have a feeling he’ll be in a few more episodes, far more than other years as it’s the final countdown. Did anyone notice Will Hochman’s face has filled out a little? Or just me because I have a crush…
Anyhoodle, onto their first scene…
Joe: Thanks for letting me help out with this. My team’s been watching this place for weeks. (My thought: Really? Like you gave a shit about the car previously, but anything to catch a crook, right? And, why are you thanking him for helping out? Jamie should be thanking you for letting him help.)
A few sentences later…
Jamie: They better not have chopped up Joe’s car.
Joe: Well, your car.
Jamie: I still think of it as Joe’s. He taught me how to drive in that thing.
Joe: Sounds like you guys were close.
Jamie: Yeah. He understood me like no one else.
Joe: How so?
Jamie: Danny and Erin always, you know, thought of me as the Boy Scout. They still call me that sometimes. (My thought: Yes, Joe knows, he said it way back in S12/E12 “The Reagan Way” when this exchange happened.
Joe: And now I know why Danny calls you a boy scout.
Jamie: Hey, before you said you’re not one of us. Right, well I think you’re absolutely right. You’re not. You’re nothing like your father.)
WE KNOW JAMIE, WE FUCKING KNOW!
Jamie continues: But Joe, during one of our driving lessons, he said that he was the wild one, Danny was the funny one, Erin was the…the daddy’s girl, and that I thought that meant I had to be the smart one. “But you don’t have to live up to anything,” he said, “except your own expectations.” That I only passed the bar to prove I could, to make my parents proud. It wasn’t what I wanted. Joe gave me… permission to become a cop. I only wish he’d lived long enough for me to thank him for it. That’s him. (My thought: Joe’s trying hard not to laugh at the bullshit.)
Later, when Jamie’s talking to Eddie in their kitchen, the scene starts with this conversation.
Jamie: He just tries to tackle everything like a bull in a China shop.
Eddie: Well, on the other hand, maybe he does feel a bit of a connection to the car, too, since it was his dad’s. I think it’s nice that you’re letting him work it with you.
Jamie: Just hope I don’t regret it.
EX-FUCKING-SCUSE ME?
Not only did JOE thank you when he shouldn’t have, he told you they couldn’t go in due to not securing a warrant. On top of that, AGAIN, YOU’RE working with Joe and his team, JOE’s not working with you and no, he’s not fucking going in like a bull in a China shop. YOU’RE the one who wanted to go in.
What the actual fuck, Jamie! I’m so over this little bitch lying about Joe.
Jamie then has this scene with Henry.
Jamie: Hey, Pop.
Henry: Hey, J. How’s the investigation with your car going?
Jamie: Don’t worry, Gramps, I’m not gonna rest until I get that car back. Sure.
Henry: Why?
Jamie: Why? I mean, it was Joe’s car. What do you mean, why?
Henry: Well, it was nice to drive Joe’s car because he loved it so, and it was a part of him when he was alive, but it’s no longer a part of him. It’s just a car, that’s it.
Jamie: I thought you, of all people, would understand more the importance of it.
Henry: When I was growing up, we had one car, a used car, that the whole family shared. And, one night, I borrowed it to drive out to New Hyde Park and pick up this girl that I’d made a date with. On my way out there, I got into an accident on the LIE, and I totalled the car. When I broke the news to my mother, she asked, “Are you okay?” I said, “Yeah, but I totalled the car.” I started to cry; said I was sorry. Without missing a beat, she said, “Never worry about material things. Only ever worry about things you can’t replace.” That simple sentence will live with me forever.
We move on to when they finally raid the chop shop (not sure on what grounds I wasn’t watching the rest of the show).
Joe: Jamie… (My thought: Damn! Will’s got a booming voice.) Not a mark on it.
Jamie: Wow. I didn’t think we’d get it back.
Joe: Yep. Looks good. No damage inside.
Jamie: Here, heads up.
Joe: What?
Jamie: It’s yours.
Joe: Yeah, you’re probably right. We’ll have to run it through crime scene.
Jamie: No, I mean the car is yours…from now on.
Joe: What are you talking about?
Jamie: It was your dad’s. I think you should have it now.
Joe: Really?
Jamie: Yeah.
Joe: No. No, I can’t. Really?
Jamie: You say really one more time, I think I’m gonna change my mind.
Joe: Really? Thank you.
I swear to God if they make Joe thank Jamie or the family one more time…
He’s done more thanking and apologising to that family than they have to him. He needs to stop and they need to start apologising to him, especially Jamie, for the bullshitting garbage they’ve put him through.
Onto family dinner and this weird thing happens. Jack goes to sit in the spot next to Frank.
Joe says: I thought that was my seat.
Sean: Uh, you can sit here. (My thought: You sound a little unsure Sean, did everyone not discuss seating arrangements while setting the table?)
Joe: All right. Well, at least I’m not the only one at the table now without the last name Reagan.
Danny: Well, we can’t all be perfect, Joe.
*Eye roll
Meanwhile… Eddie’s still Janko and Nikki is Reagan-Boyle.
That’s a weird thing to have him say because he’s sat between Danny and Sean before, and next to Jamie another time, so no, Joe, that’s not specifically your “spot”. It’s generally reserved for guests as every guest has sat there. Anthony, Jack, Baiz, Garret, Kerns, etc.
And then we get this little family moment about the car.
Eddie: So, does everybody know that Jamie gave his car to Joe? (My thought: Technically gave Joe’s car to Joe.)
Frank: Is that right?
Henry: No kidding.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that.
Eddie: It was a beautiful gesture.
Joe: I am loving driving it. (My thought: Thank God he didn’t thank him again.)
Frank: Lot of memories in that car.
Danny: I went to senior prom in that car.
Erin. Me, too.
Danny: Right. Joe and I tailed you the whole night.
Erin: What?
Danny: Dad told us to.
Erin: Dad?
Frank: Sorry, not sorry.
Jamie: I had my first date in that car.
Danny: Made it to first base in that car.
Joe: Hey.
Frank: Jamie, that was a lovely gesture. And, Joe, I hope you enjoy it as much as your dad did.
Danny: Yeah, Joe really loved that car. Yeah.
Henry: He was a real racing enthusiast, you know. (My thought: And how would Joe know that since you lot have barely told him anything about his freakin’ father in four freakin’ years?)
Danny: Yeah, instead of having pinup posters in his room, he had hot rods. (My thought: And where are all of Joe Senior’s belongings now?)
Jamie: And a quote from Dale Earnhardt.
Frank: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um… “The winner ain’t the one with the fastest car. It’s the one who refuses to lose.”
We’ve waited five months for that…
I think the writers are rewriting history. Jamie got shitty with Joe in S14/E9 “Two of a Kind” when they had a conversation about the Chevelle and respecting that it was his dad’s car. Joe showed no interest in it then, but now Jamie’s fine with letting it go. Just like that? And Joe’s loving driving it? Just like that?
Am I the only one who got some weird vibes from their interaction? Maybe the writers and producers are trying to wrap up the Joe/Jamie storyline in eight episodes. I know Joe, and the whole family including Nikki, Jack, and ex-husband Jack, are back in the final episode. They would be, it’s the finale of the show as a whole. Photos and videos were posted to Twitter months back if anyone cares to scroll through the Blue Bloods hashtag.
I await the next episode to see if Joe’s back, if he isn’t I won’t be posting. If he is, fingers crossed he’s hot, I definitely will be.
YAY! S14/E15 “No Good Deed” Joe’s finally back (we need more Joe) in a Joe Danny-centric episode as uncle and nephew work together for the first time in quite a while. This episode sees Danny turn up at Joe’s crime scene because narcotics are involved. I won’t repeat all of their conversations as there’s no need, but these two parts of different conversations were sweet.
Danny: Well, well, if it isn’t the boy wonder. Heard you could use some help from your Uncle Danny.
Joe: Not exactly. Here working part of a narcotics case.
Danny: Oh. Well, I’m here because half my squad and my partner are in court. Supposed to be my day off.
Joe: Lucky you.
Danny: Yeah, lucky me.
And then at the end of that conversation…
Danny: I think I’m gonna be spending the day with my nephew.
Naw, how sweet, but pray tell, why haven’t you been spending time with him in the last four years? Although, you rarely spend time with Sean, unless you’re berating him about not going to school, or getting involved with crime when you told him to stay out of it.
We move on through the episode and with each scene they work together you can see Danny gently trying to direct Joe towards a particular way of working. The “good cop” version of Danny Reagan which is cool, gentle and mellow. Because as we know, Danny’s usual “bad cop” way is to yell at the perp and beat them up in his hot-headed rage. But now and then we get the low voice, and gentle demeanour of Danny. This was Danny with Joe. Teaching him lessons along the way, such as handing out business cards so people can contact you in private instead of speaking in front of others which might put them in harm’s way.
It also shows how Danny thinks about Joe. He’s not pissed off like Jamie is. And we still haven’t got to the bottom of that, and probably won’t by the end of the series. Danny’s cool with Joe, more than likely due to the emotional losses of his mother, Joe, Linda, plus multiple partners that have moved on. He doesn’t need to berate and preach to him as Jamie does, which says Danny’s pretty settled into himself, more than likely due to middle age and all of the losses he’s experienced. He probably sees Junior as a win, and that’s pretty cool. But again, why not spend time with him?
After the scene of them each shooting a perp to protect the other, and you can see they’re both shaken by it, we wrap up with this conversation.
Joe: Gotta admit, that was pretty impressive back there.
Danny: Yeah, except you lost your narcotics collar. Guy got away with the evidence.
Joe: Pilar’s alive. That’s what really matters.
Danny: Am I sensing some personal growth here?
Joe: I learned it from a halfway decent mentor.
Danny: Yeah, save the brownnosing for Fennessy’s.
Joe: All right, as long as the first round’s on you.
Danny: It is, but you’re buying a bucket after that.
That’s the thing when Joe works with Danny. He comes away being treated decently, an equal among men, but not rank, which is understandable as he’s still only detective third grade while Danny is first grade. He has meaningful conversations with Danny, and learns life lessons with an older male he’s related to that he wouldn’t have got from growing up with his single mother.
Why they haven’t put Joe together with Danny more often is a mystery. Why Danny hasn’t wanted to hang out with Joe until now, but only because they wrapped up a joint case, is a mystery. Has Joe wanted to hang out with Danny? Joe could learn a hell of a lot from Danny as he’s been on the job longer and went to war, and has more life/work experience on top of his personal ones. And yes, that goes against me saying previously that Joe’s learned to be a hot head from Danny, but this Danny, he could learn a lot from.
Which is why Joe needs more Danny. Danny could potentially, and strangely, get him back on track to becoming the cop he was angling to be when he first came into the show. The first-rate detective Frank praised so much. Although I have noticed, in this second half of the final series, that Joe is calmer and more mature. Maybe it’s because Will has matured as a man and it comes through in his acting. Or he could just be playing Joe in a more mature fashion.
Hell, Joe even needs more cousin scenes, but Sean doesn’t seem to give two hoots after the initial “let’s find him and invite him to dinner” in “Family Secrets” saga that Sean carried on with. He was also excited for Jack and Nikki to meet Joe that Christmas at the end of S11, but since then, bupkis.
I’m also surprised, with so few episodes left, and I know he’s in the last one, that they haven’t had Joe spend time with Henry or even more time with Frank. But he had that time back in S13 and learned a few lessons from his grandpa then. But is he learning any from his great-grandpa? Apparently not.
As I’ve mentioned previously, they could’ve had one of the characters say a sentence or two about having spent time with him, but for some reason, the writers didn’t want Joe to spend one-on-one time with any of the family outside work. He went bowling with Erin once, and went to a bar with Jamie once and we all know how that ended. He’s spent time with Frank, but what and who else outside of work?
That’s why we needed more Joe and mellow Danny, it would’ve helped Joe even out his temper and become more of a man of knowledge and cop tricks.
But, alas, we’re not getting any.
As we deal with the last ever, that we know of, episode of Blue Bloods, S14/E18 “End of Tour”, this piece comes to an end.
After fourteen years, and five years of the mindfuckery of Joe Hill, the family, and the show, come to a close with an obvious conclusion. An officer dies, and Jamie and Eddie are having a baby. Everyone kicks into high gear to catch the arsehole shooting at cops, and the mayor, and many suffer in return. But since this piece is about the character of Joe, here is my analysis of his final scenes in the show after five years of being Joe Big Dick Energy Hill.
The first is at the hospital after Eddie’s barely been shot and Badillo dies.
Joe walks out of the elevator looking all full and manly. Will has filled out in the last five years. Whoo! Bringing the chestnut hair and the manly confidence, Hochman.
Joe: How’s she doing?
Jamie: About how you’d think.
Joe: I’m so sorry, man.
Jamie: Thank you.
Joe: So, a CI traded me some intel on one of the shooters.
Jamie: The one that killed Badillo? Then shot my wife?
Joe: I don’t know. There’ve been three other radio cars fired upon, and counting. Don’t know. I know he gave me the name of a guy who can finger one of ’em.
Jamie: Go get ’em. And good luck.
Joe: I also don’t know it wasn’t actually their shooter, either.
Jamie: My place is here with her.
Joe: You her doctor?
Jamie: Shut up, man.
Joe: No? Or are you the cop who collars one of these guys? It’s all hands on deck out there, Jamie. And we got way more deck than hands. Now, I already got a name… Emilio Mars, so let’s go get an address. (My thought: We’re back to doing the Jamie thing, not Uncle Jamie like in S14/E2 “Dropping Bombs”. And E2 was the only time he called him that.)
Jamie is emotionally resigned in this scene, due to Eddie being shot, I’m sure. But it’s not like she was on her death bed, hell, she even ripped out her IV and tried to get out of the hospital. He’s tired but has no need to be, so it doesn’t take much to convince him to work the case.
Their next scene is talking to the perp’s girlfriend and Joe gets a bunch of flowers to the face. I hope they smelt nice.
Joe: Flowers for you.
Woman: What?
Joe: Not a peep.
Woman: There’s no one else here! What kind of delivery guys are you?! (My thought: Why did her voice go high as if warning someone?)
Joe: I said be quiet. Don’t move.
Jamie: Clear.
Joe: Go into the room.
Woman: You’re cops?
Joe: Yes, ma’am. We need to know, where is Emilio? (My thought: Joe’s using his manners)
Woman: That makes three of us that want to know.
Joe: You are clearly in a delicate condition. We don’t want to bother… (My thought: Can’t we say pregnant on CBS?)
Woman: Delicate? Seriously? Try furious! Smacks Joe in the face with the flowers.
Jamie: Hey, hey, hey.
Woman: I was due yesterday, and Emilio ain’t nowhere to be found. And now even the cops can’t find him?
Joe: Take a seat.
Jamie: We’re sorry to bother you, but you know anywhere we might find him?
Woman: If I did, I’d be there kicking his skinny ass to Sunday.
Joe: Thank you for your time. And good luck with the baby. So, we got nothing.
Jamie: I got her phone bill. He has to be calling her. I can put in for a subpoena for her call records. We can track him from there.
Joe: That may take time that we don’t have. I know a guy.
Jamie: We’re doing this by the book.
Joe: Starting when? There was nothing by the book about what we just did in there. (My thought: Joe’s right. Jamie loves to preach about doing things the right way, every now and then he does things off the book and never mentions it, but loves to hold everyone else accountable)
Jamie: All right, you start on your guy. I’ll get started on the subpoena.
Joe: Yeah.
A quick scene follows as they pull up outside the girlfriend’s apartment building and she’s being taken away by paramedics. I can see no real need for this scene, but I guess they needed something to give viewers an idea of what their next step could be.
Joe: So, that’s your plan? Park outside the building?
Jamie: We sit on the house in case he comes back, unless you got a better idea. Excuse me. What happened to her?
Paramedic: She’s having a baby is what happened to her.
Paramedic: All right, let’s go, let’s go.
Joe: What do you think?
Jamie: Even cop killers got a soft spot for their little newborn babies?
Following that, we move onto the nursery scene where both idiots are waving at babies that are not theirs and the perp walks up. They recognize him by his shoes, of all things.
Jamie: Don’t move.
Joe: Emilio Mars, you’re under arrest for the murder of police officer Luis Badillo. Police. Stand back. We’re fine. You need cuffs?
Jamie: Cuffs are coming. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you do say can and will be used against you…
Joe: What do you mean coming?
Jamie: Eddie!
Eddie: Here.
Joe: What is that?
Lieutenant whatshername (what’s her rank now?): They’re Badillo’s handcuffs.
Joe: I got him.
I get it, Eddie wanted to do something for Badillo, but couldn’t she have been quicker?
The next time they’re together is in the funeral scene, and presumably, Joe has met Nikki and Jack already, who, in real life, does not look like his brother Andrew. Look at the two of them standing there together. Nothing alike whatsoever.
I expected some big “hi, how are you, so nice to meet you” scenario, but the moment didn’t call for it. Maybe at another moment? Maybe it wasn’t appropriate. But with the way they carried on at the end of S11/E3 “Atonement” when they didn’t meet him at Christmas after he got the hell out of Dodge, you’d think the writers and producers would have given us something.
Was Badillo the only one who died? I know other officers were injured, as was he, he just happened to die from his injuries. But that’s not what this piece is about.
The whole family is at the funeral doing their part. Do assistant district attorneys and their pit bulls turn up to cop funerals? Does the mayor? Is this normal, or just for the family, and this show?
And then we move on to dinner.
How did the dining table suddenly get so huge? Does it seem longer?
The dinner is all about Jamie and Eddie having a baby, maybe that’s why the parasite has mellowed, and Joe gets one freakin’ sentence.
Joe: Well, whether it’s a he or a she, if I may, they will be really lucky to be a part of this family.
Does this mean, after five years of turmoil, that he feels really lucky to be a part of this family? He’s said something in a similar vein before, so maybe he has mellowed. It certainly seems as if he has in this episode. Maybe finally having beers with mellow Uncle Danny mellowed him a bit more.
Joe’s getting along with Jamie, yet we still have no freakin’ clue what Jamie’s issue with Joe is and never will.
So, what did I think of the final show?
I skimmed through most of it as Joe’s scenes are the ones this piece is about.
In the last five years, he’s hit the emotional skids and freaked the fuck out. In season 11 he got the hell out of Dodge to get his head around who he was now related to. In seasons 12-13, he pissed off Erin and Jamie and had an attack of arrogance working with the FBI, receiving a dressing down from Frank in S13/E13 “Past History” for it. In season 14 he pissed Jamie off even more while working with the FBI, again, but they both mellowed out after Frank dressed them down in S14/E9 “Two of a Kind” after their fight. Which I still think was pathetic. Girls fight worse than those two.
Jamie has lied about Joe at every turn and treated him like shit and not cared for the last two seasons but has seemed to have calmed as a character ever so slightly, like when he handed over the keys to Senior’s car, which he didn’t have to think too hard about, weirdly.
Jamie still had some aloofness in E18, but you could see that he almost appeared resigned to Joe’s existence. And Joe’s not only mellowed in certain ways, but Will Hochman has physically grown over the last five years. He’s not only filled out in himself but also in this role. Maybe one has to do with the other.
Was it the best ending? That’s for every viewer to decide for themselves. Did we get a conclusion to Jamie’s hatred and anger at Joe? FUCK NO! And that leads to The Absolute Mindfuck of Joe Hill.
I hope you enjoyed this piece. Please leave your comments below, and if the box set has anything else on it, which I’m hoping it does, I will definitely be adding to it in future.
Nor says
Will you add Joe’s deleted scenes?
Tiara says
Hi, I’ve talked about a couple of deleted scenes in the essay already, and will talk about any from season 14 when I get the box set from the library.
Roro says
Can you
add the deleted scenes of Joe from season 14? Thanks for your efforts
Tiara says
Hi, I have to wait for it to come out and be available in my local library, but I will be checking it out and if there are any, I’ll be adding to this post.
Anne says
I liked the finale, but Jamie, as usual, lacks patience for his nephew. I think that’s sad. I also wanted to see Joe interact with his cousins. He and Nikki have got to be mere months apart. They should be communicating. I did like 2 things in particular. I loved the tiny scene with just Joe and the tech. Joe hardly ever is given his own scenes, and this scene where he showed patience and gratitude with the tech showed us how much he’s grown. I also loved the great job Tom did at the dinner table with him. When Joe reached out to shake his hand, Frank grabbed Joe’s hand with both of his. I thought that was so sweet, and then he patted Joe’s shoulder 3 times when Joe said how lucky the baby would be to be born into that family. While I needed more Joe throughout the last 5 seasons, I’ll take it. Joe seems to know where he belongs and who he belongs to.
Tiara says
I think Jamie lacks patience for a lot of people, things, and situations.
Joe always had manners, you could see it from his first episodes way back at the end of season 10, early 11. But that was before the heaviness of knowing who his father’s family was bore down on him like a tonne of bricks. Paula, regardless of mindfucking him, taught him manners. Joe’s fine with everyone else he works with, unless they beat him up for being a Reagan, like in early season 11. He’s also fine working with Danny, as we’ve seen the very few times they’ve worked together. He can also get along with and work with Jamie, and sadly, we are still to get to the bottom of Jamie’s issue. Unless that’s in the DVD extras.
And yes, they settled Joe down into understanding this is the family he’s now in, so between his anger in series 13, and getting into his pissing matches with Jamie in early 14, they settled him. The character’s grown, it only took four seasons, but he got there in the end. And Will did an amazing job.
Anne says
I’m so happy I found this! Regarding the age continuity, I found it odd that Erin just jumped to age 25 or 26. Joe could’ve fathered a child during multiple years, making his child anywhere from age 11 to 27 at that time. I also agree that junior was 12 when his father died, but I don’t stress over how he said he was a few years younger as opposed to a couple. Regarding the birth order, Joe was oldest, and then he became third. I guess the writers realized their mistake trying to convince us that Erin and Danny were born after 1977. The last question that I wish the show would answer is who Frank’s oldest grandchild is. The show has established that Nicky was born in 1996, and Joe was 24 in March of 2020, so he was either born in 1995 or early 1996. I think it’s close, but Joe is likely older. Thank you so much for doing this!
Tiara says
I can’t remember whether it’s been mentioned that Joe’s the eldest on the show, or whether I read it in the wiki fandom page I came across, and Joe Senior’s death dates have also changed on his headstone at the cemetary. After watching Season 13’s DVD extra The Legacy of Joe Reagan, I’d say the producers didn’t think much of Junior’s character and just threw a past history together that doesn’t make a lot of sense. But then, neither does Senior’s history at this point.
Anne says
I noticed you skipped over the part about Danny complaining about Joe to Erin and Pop in epiaode 15. Danny may be nicer to Joe, but the show does seem to paint Joe, in my opinion, as the nephew none of them want. It’s so sad. I’ve never had a secret nephew show up, but I’d like to think I’d be nicer.
Tiara says
I didn’t even know he did. With these last episodes I think I’ve skipped every scene Joe’s not in. Danny said he’s not worked up, but he seemed resigned to the situation. He sees a young detective who’s a bit too gung-ho and needs to learn the ins and outs of dealing with people. That comes from experience and years on the force. Danny is detective third grade, Joe’s first, he still has a lot to learn. And Danny was also in the war, so he has double the experience. He’s pretty laid back with Joe the nephew, but sees that Joe the cop still needs to learn a few things and he’s offering advice in his mellowed out later years.
And yes, I agree, and have mentioned about the early years, that none of them want to hang out with him. He could have bowled with Erin once a month. Gone out for a beer with Danny once a month, except for this episode, that hasn’t happened, but then Danny barely hangs out with Sean. Hell, Sean doesn’t even hang out with Joe, and vice versa.
Ro2 says
Jamie is a despicable and hypocritical character (despicable character because he makes everyone think that Joe is a bad person and does not show the truth completely like the fight episode and this episode as well)
Tiara says
Absolutely agree. I really don’t know why he keeps lying about Joe and what he says and does when he doesn’t do it. Jamie’s core issue with Joe Junior is yet to be got to the bottom of, because him being his brother’s son, and his nephew, ain’t it.
ancilla89 says
O, this was excellent! So many thoughts, so many questions. I am bookmarking this to come back to you as you add notes for the second half of this (final *sniff*) season.
Li says
Also Is it true that there were deleted scenes for Joe Hill in past seasons?
Tiara says
There was a scene from Allegiance that was deleted, but it didn’t add to anything much for that ep so I didn’t write it. I didn’t see any others on the box sets for seasons 11 and 12. He does make it into the gag reel for S12, and the story of the Reagans S11.
Li says
Joe is Frank’s Grandson!
Jamie is having a hard time dealing with this!! And he is no longer the youngest policeman in the family !!
what you think?
Tiara says
I spoke about that above.
Anne says
I agree. It’s as if Jamie sees Joe as his younger brother rather than his nephew. Even in the finale, Jamie seemed annoyed by him. Jamie’s the one who needs to grow up. Maybe fatherhood will do it.
Tiara says
Let’s hope he does.
Aa says
Hey, are there any Joe Hill deleted scenes from past seasons? If there is, can you add it?!
Tiara says
There was a scene from Allegiance that was deleted, but it didn’t add to anything much for that ep so I didn’t write it. I didn’t see any others on the box sets for seasons 11 and 12.
.., says
Can you add Joe Hill’s deleted scene here?
Tiara says
I will be when I get the DVD set from my local library. I’ll have a good look at it and give my thoughts under the section for S12/E12 and highlighted in orange with an update date so people know it’s new. Check back in about two weeks.
Tiara says
The scene has been watched and I’ve given my thoughts on it. It’s in orange right after the discussion on S12/12.
… says
Jamie is jealous and hypocritical, but he is smart and does not show it. That is, if he disagrees with Danny or Joe, he know that the family will stand with him.
newsjunkie says
It’s not online unfortunately. I believe the DVD available in Australia should have the same special features or maybe it’s available via a library?. Also the gag reel is pretty fun for all the cast/characters in general.
Tiara says
Yes, I’ve ordered it from my local library, so I’ll definitely be watching it and then adding to the post.
Ze says
Jamie has a real HOSTILE SIDE! ,It seems to be a matter of jealousy I guess, because the Order of the Saint was also with Jimmy, right?! He wasn’t going to give it to Joe, but Frank gave it to him
Tiara says
Jamie has hostility over something and it needs to be dealt with because he’s holding it against Joe. Joe’s only been in the family for four years, Jamie needs to grow up.
X2 says
Even in the last episode, Jamie doesn’t seem to accept Joe from his facial expressions (sometimes I think Will doesn’t accept Will Hochman, maybe), there are rumours that Will (Jimmy has issues with the producers) is so absent from the goodbyes and doesn’t engage with the actors and notice that everyone posts with the actors and skips Will East
Tiara says
Interesting comment and entirely possible.
newsjunkie says
There is a deleted scene on the DVD for the Season 12 episode The Reagan Way where Joe more explicitly says “I’m a Reagan.”
Tiara says
Thanks for that. That just gives me more thoughts, espeically, why did they cut it? And why is he not saying it two years later, and why does Jamie still have an issue with him not saying it? Do you know of a link for it online? I need to see this now.